equivalent potential temperature

Gisele Zepka gzepka at DGE.INPE.BR
Tue Jan 26 11:51:51 EST 2010


Arw_post from version 2.2

Gisele


Em 26/1/2010 14:44, Jeffrey Duda escreveu:
> What are you using to post-process the data?
>
> Jeff
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Gisele Zepka <gzepka at dge.inpe.br 
> <mailto:gzepka at dge.inpe.br>> wrote:
>
>     I am running my own wrf simulations.
>
>     Gisele
>
>
>     Em 26/1/2010 14:40, Jeffrey Duda escreveu:
>>     Are you performing your own WRF simulations or are you obtaining
>>     past data from operationally run models?
>>
>>     Jeff
>>
>>     On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Gisele Zepka
>>     <gzepka at dge.inpe.br <mailto:gzepka at dge.inpe.br>> wrote:
>>
>>         I will use temperature and relative humidity at surface from
>>         wrf model (TMPsfc and RHsfc).
>>         I think that I need to find the surface pressure from the
>>         variable pressfc.
>>
>>         Gisele
>>
>>
>>
>>         Em 26/1/2010 14:23, Jeffrey Duda escreveu:
>>>         Which model data are you using?  American models should have
>>>         data for surface pressure.  It's usually called pressfc.
>>>
>>>         Jeff Duda
>>>
>>>         On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Gisele Zepka
>>>         <gzepka at dge.inpe.br <mailto:gzepka at dge.inpe.br>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Well I have a problem then.
>>>             I run the wrf model and it has 42 levels. The surface
>>>             pressure is defined as 1013. This is my lowest level
>>>             when I set z=1.
>>>             I really don't know how to get this Mb.
>>>
>>>             Gisele
>>>
>>>
>>>             Em 26/1/2010 13:59, Andrew Revering escreveu:
>>>
>>>                 If you're using GRIB data, you should find a SFC
>>>                 level. You don't want to
>>>                 set it to 1013 because that isn't necessarily the
>>>                 suface. In many cases that
>>>                 will be an imaginary, extrapolation below ground (in
>>>                 the mountains for
>>>                 example).
>>>
>>>                 Look for 'SFC' in the inventory of your GRIB data
>>>                 for the proper level. You
>>>                 should be able to find Tc, Td, RH for the 'SFC'
>>>                 level in there to do the
>>>                 calculations.
>>>
>>>                 So to clarify... MB would be the MB at the Surface.
>>>                 How that’s defined
>>>                 exactly in your data set you'll have to figure out,
>>>                 but you don’t want it to
>>>                 calculate it for 1013, unless you wanted a
>>>                 geopotential height like 850mb
>>>                 done.
>>>
>>>                 Andrew Revering
>>>                 Convective Development, Inc.
>>>                 http://www.convectivedevelopment.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>                 -----Original Message-----
>>>                 From: GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT
>>>                 <mailto:GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT>
>>>                 [mailto:GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT
>>>                 <mailto:GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT>] On Behalf Of
>>>                 Gisele Zepka
>>>                 Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:50 AM
>>>                 To: GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT
>>>                 <mailto:GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT>
>>>                 Subject: Re: equivalent potential temperature
>>>
>>>                 Thanks a lot Andrew.
>>>
>>>                 As I said before, I will use model data to calculate
>>>                 theta-e. If I set
>>>                 the surface in the model, it is 1013 hPa. Is this
>>>                 the level that I need
>>>                 to consider in Mb (station pressure). If not, what
>>>                 is Mb? All Tc, Td and
>>>                 RH are catch in Mb level, aren't they?
>>>
>>>                 Gisele
>>>
>>>
>>>                 Em 26/1/2010 12:59, Andrew Revering escreveu:
>>>
>>>                     You can calculate the Theta-E from ANY level.
>>>                     The typical levels of
>>>
>>>                 interest
>>>
>>>                     for severe weather are 850mb and the surface.
>>>                     Values of 330K or greater
>>>
>>>                 are
>>>
>>>                     usually indicative of instability great enough
>>>                     for severe weather. If
>>>
>>>                 you're
>>>
>>>                     looking at severe weather, I probably would use
>>>                     the surface. Likewise, you
>>>                     can use the gradient you get from Theta-E,
>>>                     overlay wind barbs at the level
>>>                     you're calculating (surface or 850) and you get
>>>                     a real nice idea of where
>>>                     the boundaries are at that level.
>>>
>>>                     The disclaimer is there are a LOT of other
>>>                     parameters needed to really
>>>                     identify a situation as severe-worthy though.
>>>
>>>                     I don't know if GrADS has a function for it, but
>>>                     the 'saturated' potential
>>>                     temperature (Theta-E) can be calculated with
>>>                     either of the following:
>>>
>>>                     Tc= temperature in degrees C
>>>                     Td = dew point temperature in degrees C (if needed)
>>>                     Mb = station pressure (be careful to note this
>>>                     is not sea level pressure
>>>
>>>                 or
>>>
>>>                     altimeter, they are all different)
>>>                     M = Mixing Ratio (calculations below if needed)
>>>                     RH = relative humidity
>>>                     Ms = Saturation Mixing Ratio (if needed,
>>>                     calculations below)
>>>                     Es = Dry Saturation Vapor Pressure (calculations
>>>                     below if needed)
>>>
>>>                     ThetaE = (Tc + 273.15) * ( 1000 / Mb ) ^ 0.286 +
>>>                     (3 * M)
>>>
>>>                     OR
>>>
>>>                     ThetaE = (273.15 + Tc) * ( 1000 / Mb ) ^ 0.286 +
>>>                     (3 * (RH * (3.884266 * 10
>>>
>>>                 ^
>>>
>>>                     (( 7.5 * Tc ) / ( 237.7 + Tc )) ) /100 ))
>>>
>>>
>>>                     M= RH*Ms/100
>>>                     OR
>>>                     M= ((0.622*E)/(Mb-E))*1000
>>>
>>>                     Ms = ((Val(RH) / 100) / Val(M)) * 100
>>>                     OR MORE ACCURATELY
>>>                     Ms = 0.622 * Es/(P - Es)
>>>
>>>                     Es = 6.1078 * exp([(9.5939 * Td) -
>>>                     307.004]/[(0.556 * Td) + 219.522])
>>>
>>>                     Andrew Revering
>>>                     Convective Development, Inc.
>>>                     http://www.convectivedevelopment.com/
>>>
>>>                     -----Original Message-----
>>>                     From: GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT
>>>                     <mailto:GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT>
>>>                     [mailto:GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT
>>>                     <mailto:GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT>] On Behalf
>>>
>>>                 Of
>>>
>>>                     Gisele Zepka
>>>                     Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:40 AM
>>>                     To: GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT
>>>                     <mailto:GRADSUSR at LIST.CINECA.IT>
>>>                     Subject: equivalent potential temperature
>>>
>>>                     Dear all,
>>>
>>>                     I am interested to analyse the atmospheric
>>>                     instability when a storm
>>>                     occurrs using equivalent potential temperature
>>>                     from mesoscale model.
>>>                     What atmospheric level do I need to check to get
>>>                     an idea of instability?
>>>                     I don't have a theta_e output, so I will
>>>                     calculate it from temperature
>>>                     and humidity data from model.
>>>
>>>                     Please, any help will be nice.
>>>
>>>                     Thanks.
>>>                     Gisele
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             -- 
>>>             Msc. Gisele dos Santos Zepka
>>>             Atmospheric Electricity Group (ELAT)
>>>             National Institute for Space Research (INPE)
>>>             Av. dos Astronautas, 1758
>>>             São José dos Campos/ SP/ Brazil CEP 12227-010
>>>             Phone ++55(12)39456841
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         -- 
>>>         Jeff Duda
>>>         Iowa State University
>>>         Meteorology Graduate Student
>>>         3134 Agronomy Hall
>>>         www.meteor.iastate.edu/~jdduda
>>>         <http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/%7Ejdduda>
>>
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Msc. Gisele dos Santos Zepka
>>         Atmospheric Electricity Group (ELAT)
>>         National Institute for Space Research (INPE)
>>         Av. dos Astronautas, 1758
>>         São José dos Campos/ SP/ Brazil CEP 12227-010
>>         Phone ++55(12)39456841
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Jeff Duda
>>     Iowa State University
>>     Meteorology Graduate Student
>>     3134 Agronomy Hall
>>     www.meteor.iastate.edu/~jdduda
>>     <http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/%7Ejdduda>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Msc. Gisele dos Santos Zepka
>     Atmospheric Electricity Group (ELAT)
>     National Institute for Space Research (INPE)
>     Av. dos Astronautas, 1758
>     São José dos Campos/ SP/ Brazil CEP 12227-010
>     Phone ++55(12)39456841
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Jeff Duda
> Iowa State University
> Meteorology Graduate Student
> 3134 Agronomy Hall
> www.meteor.iastate.edu/~jdduda <http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/%7Ejdduda>


-- 
Msc. Gisele dos Santos Zepka
Atmospheric Electricity Group (ELAT)
National Institute for Space Research (INPE)
Av. dos Astronautas, 1758
São José dos Campos/ SP/ Brazil CEP 12227-010
Phone ++55(12)39456841

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